Snowpiercer TV

I'll get the conversation started with the first of many comments.

As noted in the swap description, I'm kind of obsessed. I watch at 8p Central on Sunday, then watch the replay to catch all of the little things I missed the first time around. Then comes the reviews/recaps online to see if I agree or disagree with what the reviewer says/thinks/guesses about the show and where it's going. And after that, I head to YouTube for even more! (If we weren't in the time of COVID, I don't think I'd spend this much time on one TV show!)

There are five YouTube channels I search for that do recaps, two of them are really good -- they catch and point out little things that I missed even with two viewings! One of the five spends a lot of time saying how the TV show differs from the film. Duh! Two different mediums. Of course they are different.

That "Snowpiercer" was picked up for a second season before the first season even began is quite intriguing.

Who wants to take a guess at which "major" character will die first? The way S1 E5 played out, anything is possible!

My fav car so far is the aquarium. Such beauty! I’m sure there isn’t a ‘beach’ car (who knows, maybe?) so that’s prob the closest I’d get to the ocean. I’d love to see a car with horses. I wonder if there is a zoo car with large animals? Or maybe they just have technology to save embryos and repopulate animals later? I hope so or there wouldnt be any more whales! Did they get a chance to look at far ahead?

As for the story, now that the detective is in the drawer, will they release rich girl? (Sorry, I’m bad with names!) And I’m so sad for the cows. Why on earth wouldn’t they prevent something like this by separating the car with a double door system. An airlock type of thing with one set of doors always closed? Duh. That way at least half the cows would have lived. Especially since the train needs their methane! Just shows how precarious life is in an EOTWAWKI scenario.

Mr. Wilfred definitely died or perhaps never made it to the train. Or I guess he could have lost his faculties. I figured that out way early on. I guess they keep up the scam because he provided the train and everyone seems to respect that he is the ultimate authority. The ruler of sorts. I think there would be anarchy if the knowledge got out. I’m expecting that at some point, the people running the train will disagree on a major issue so I look forward to seeing that play out.

I much prefer the TV show over the movie. The movie treated the train too much like it was a person and the stupid mantra, “The train provides” got so annoying. Either way I hate the class system. It’s so horrible.

Rebecca: What an interesting observation about big animals like elephants. It is supposed to be "the great ark train," so I wonder.

Another open question is how many people may have survived the freeze. In Ep 3 or 4 there was a mention about rich people fleeing to their bunkers before the freeze. That means there are potentially others outside the Snowpiercer.

The avalanche was beautifully crafted as a scene. But you're right. One little hammer blow to a window and Poof! an extinction level event. What happened to things like triple-paned and earthquake-resident windows?! :)

Have no idea what Melanie, Jinju and the Doc are up to with The Drawers, but I think Wilford is in one of them. We know he actually existed at one point. Roche told Layton that he'd met Wilford before they boarded, and in Ep 5 Melanie talks to Miss Audrey about how they both convinced Wilford to let there be a Nightcar.

Do you think psychopath LJ knows the Wilford secret?

Ah, Snowpiercer. I've been following the show, even though I find the premise somewhat ridiculous (Who maintains the tracks? How did they lay track over the oceans, even if they were frozen over? What kind of lubrication for the wheels can withstand THAT KIND of freeze? How can one engine, no matter how high-tech, pull 1,001 fully-loaded cars? )

I must tell you, I'm two episodes behind at the moment, and I'm avoiding too many spoilers until I find out the spoiler policy on this board.

My favorite character is Layton, with Melanie a close second.

I don't believe Mr. Wilford ever really existed, just people posing as him. He's a figurehead. I wonder if Melanie will keep having her boyfriend pose as Wilford, or give him up if Third Class and the Tailies eventually revolt and demand "Wilford's" death.

I'm not properous enough for First Class (and they seem to all be phonies, posers, and snobs anyway) and am ill-suited to the hardscrabble life of Third Class or Tailies, so it's Second Class for me (and Hubby). They have dessert!

My favorite "real" car is the Beach Car, but I'd like to see a Library Car with all the world's great books (hard copies AND electronic), plus computers stuffed with all human knowledge. The computers would also be able to auto-translate everything in their databases into the world's most popular dozen or so languages. Snowpiercer is supposed to represent the world, but so far it looks like the train's "official" language is English. It would add something to the show to let us hear the announcements (or something) being translated, imho.

Without being too spoilerrific, the scene at the end of Episode One is the most harrowing thing I've seen on television. I had to keep reminding myself it wasn't real. (Hey, there's a reason I request no horror or gore in my Swap profile!!).

At some point I'd like to see the exact route Snowpiercer is following. Is it horizontally around the Equator, or vertically across both poles? Is all the Earth equally frozen? Are the scientists working on reversing the freezing, or is it impossible?

As for the drawers, I think it may be a commentary on our current system of incarceration. That is, it wouldn't be so bad if you could sleep through your entire sentence! I wonder if the people in the drawers age? So far we've only seen serious crimes punished by drawer or mutilation, though capital punishment has been hinted at. I suspect lesser offenses result in things like fines, public humiliation, or being temporarily (or permanently) demoted to a lower class.

I also noticed Snowpiercer seems to have no religion. Are all the passengers and crew agnostic, or is practicing a religion forbidden by the train's code of conduct? People seem to pay tribute to Snowpiercer itself, swearing in court on the book of train conduct and using expressions like "The engine will provide." (If y'all notice any similar expressions, please post 'em here! Thanks).

Snowpiercer is an interesting exercise in literal worldbuilding. The train is a microcosm of modern society. (And I sigh with satisfaction, having FINALLY used "microcosm" in a sentence. Take that, bucket list!). The writers could almost as easily have used an island or a ship. They are exploring a lot of issues: class conflict, sustainability, out-of-control science, interdependence, crime and punishment, politics and the nature of power. These are the issues that keep Snowpiercer fascinating in spite of the illogical premise.

@bookwrym What a great observation on the languages. We know the passengers are from the U.S., Great Britain and Australia, all English-speaking countries.

Just to see what all of the early reviewers were grumbling about, I watched the film over the weekend. It's a 2-hour movie, not a 20-episode (approximately 15-hour series).

Regarding spoilers here, I have resisted, but I sure do want to chat. So let me know when you two are caught up. :)

Some of the questions you pose ARE answered in subsequent episodes. June 28 was Episode 7.

As noted above, I watch twice and then read the reviews and recaps.

Yes, I saw we finally have the answer to the Mystery of the Drawers. (Not saying more because spoilers!). Someone also mentioned God at last, so it seems some religion has survived.

We also see the Snowpiercer "gesture" that looks like "cross your heart and hope to die." I would've expected a "W" for Wilford, but maybe Marvel has trademarked the "W for Wakanda!" Or perhaps "hoping to die" takes on a more poignant meaning in a world where humanity -- and other life -- is teetering on the brink.

I haven't seen the movie, but I've heard it focuses more on the class conflict. There's an insurrection brewing on the TV series, too, and I wonder where it's going. I see three possibilities if the rebellion succeeds: "Star Trek" socialist paradise, "Animal Farm" new regime eventually morphs into the old one, or, the more real-world model, new regime turns out MORE repressive and horrible than the old one. Also wondering if Melanie has a Messiah complex and if that could wind up being her blind spot.

I can't help wondering how Snowpiercer (the train) was set up. From the opening credits, it doesn't LOOK like the world had much warning of the new super Ice Age (unless they skipped quite a bit of time between the satellites launching and the freeze, or unless the freezing took awhile). It would make sense that the money paid for tickets would actually be used to build the train/tracks. Otherwise there's not much use for money on this new, cold Earth! It's certainly not used on board the train: we see people trading personal treasures (like wedding rings) and favors instead.

It was also recently revealed that Third Class traded their labor for passage. Whoa, there must've been a lot of competition to get on board! I wonder if families were included or if the skilled tradespeople had to leave them behind.

I remain horrified by how Snowpiercer's crew have weaponized the cold outside and am still wondering if it's supposed to represent Nature, nuclear winter, or something else entirely. Maybe all of those things at once!

(FYI, I'll always be a little bit behind because my household gets up at 5:45 AM on weekdays, so 10 PM on a Sunday is a little late for us. It's worse because I'm Not! a! morning! person!!).

Yay, stayed up late last night and got caught up!

Friendly reminder: next weeks episode is two hours. It's actually two episodes back-to-back, and the title of the very last one is a BIG SPOILER. At least I think it is...!

I've been doing some poking around online, at Best Buy's website among others, and I don't see any indication that Snowpiercer TV is going to be released to DVD or Blu-Ray, at least not any time soon. The only thing that shows up is the movie.

Have any of y'all heard differently?

My main not-too-spoilery comment about the episodes is that I found the "Strobe" scenes very hard to see. I expect that was the filmmaker's intention. I also wonder if they should've added a warning for people with epilepsy, the way Watchmen TV did.

And we finally find out what happened to Wilford!

Wow! Wow! E8. Can't wait for E9&10 next week as season finale!

@Bookwrym I'm in the maybe camp re: Wilford. In other words, I think he's alive. I'll post why here if you're interested. I'm in deep on the many theories and unanswered questions.

Absolute best and most heartbreaking line from E8: "I've got my Tail mom, Josie."

Ooooh, yes, I'd love to hear your theories about Wilford!

ONE TRAIN!

I'm just getting back to this site after a few days away.

No spoilers, but two comments on the two-part season finale tonight:

a) I cried twice-- as in searching for the tissues to wipe my eyes.

b) The last scene was wonderful cinematography, but the next to last scene would have been a better one re; storytelling.

I'll wait to post more after you guys let me know you saw E9 and E10.

I saw 9 but I don’t know if 10 is available to me yet. I’ll have to check!

Yep, I’m up to date!

If you saw 9, you saw 10. They were back to back: "The Train Demanded Blood" and "994 Cars Long."

SPOILERS FOLLOW ***** SPOILERS FOLLOW *****

x x x x x x x

So, there was a TON of speculation online about a second train called Icebreaker and Wilford being on it. That's why I wasn't convinced he was dead, although for a time I thought he was in a Drawer. There's also the full casting list on IMDB. Melanie, Layton, Till and Ruth are the four who are listed as 20 episodes -- that means they are around for both seasons 1 and 2. I won't say more than that, but the cast list yields significant information. :)

As noted above, I watch the episodes and then the assorted analyses and recaps on YouTube. Three of them are really good: Heavy Spoilers, SuperHero Nexus, and The Recaps. The others I watch are The Mike Lowery Show, Movie Emporium and Laracuente Ledger Network.

First, my thoughts on the season finale: Wow. I cried at the Miles/Layton scene, and when Melanie was in the Night Car therapy session with Miss Audrey. SO much emotion in those scenes. Was it just me or did Alexandra look ill? Who knows what type of environment they've had for seven years on Big Alice.

One thing that I'm still not buying is that Layton is the father of Zarah's baby. We didn't get a real sense of time and how long Layton's investigation took, but that was awfully fast for her to a) be pregnant by him, and b) have a sonogram image of a baby, because c) in one of the early episodes, she was talking about winning the "Baby Lottery" with Sean Wise! I think she was already pregnant, but since Sean was killed, she would have no one to be the father or take care of her. It has frustrated me that in all of the analyses I read and watch, no one has noted that discrepancy. Without a clear time line on when Sean was killed, and how long it took for Layton to investigate, it's difficult to know.

Zarah has, however, already repeatedly shown that she only does what's in the best interest of Zarah. She left Layton in the Tail for a better life in Third, so why wouldn't she lie and say Layton was the father (her only trump card), knowing that that would keep her alive even if he did hate her for what she did to Josie?

Fave characters: Till is a true badass; Ruth is very strong in her true believer status of Wilford acolyte; and Melanie's character has so much conflicting depth. We've yet to see if she is a true anti-hero or if she is an unreliable narrator. I think a bit of both. I like all three of them.

Early in the season, I watched the film "Snowpiercer" starring Chris Evans as the leader of the revolution, just to get a better idea on half of the source material. The other half of the source material -- the graphic novels -- I've had in my Amazon basket, but have yet to purchase. The film focused solely on the revolution with the Tail getting to the Engine. I love how the TV series expands the world so we see more of the train and its inhabitants.

My mind was blown by a theory I heard on two of the six YouTube channels. ...

It struck me that the emissary who met the anxious and anticipating "welcome/war party" looked so odd. What's wrong with her eyes? Maybe it was just the makeup or the lighting, but she looked unwell -- or possibly just angry,

I really liked the cinematography of the final scene where Melanie is trudging through the snow with the huge train next to her and then the whole thing switched to look like a panel from a graphic novel. That was REALLY cool, even though ending with Alexandra's declaration would have been a stronger storytelling/cliff hanger close for the season finale.

But now to the online theory that was mind-blowing: Heavy Spoilers and one other channel theorizes that Alexandra's father is ... Mr. Wilford!

That would explain so very much: Melanie's hostility toward him, all the things she told Ruth in the Hospitality office, why and how she had all of his journals that Ruth found, etc. That theory intrigues me!

One thing that was brought up re: Big Alice the supply train, is that there could be other trains out there. Apparently, in the graphic novels, there are up to 10 different trains circumnavigating the globe. Given that the TV show is on a completely different trajectory (and time frame) than the film, anything is possible.

The last of my "Things that make you go Hmmm" observations from the online chatter is the Official Timeline of the Snowpiercer Universe. Yes, (sigh) apparently, it's like Marvel and DC and Star Wars.

If I knew how to post pics here on Swap-bot, I'd share the screen grab image of the timeline. The TV show takes place seven years after the Extinction Event, and the film takes place eight years after that (15 years after extinction event), with the books and graphic novels interspersed before, during and after the TV show and film. Of course, none of the math makes sense. So we have to suspend belief in time just like we do with tracks remaining clear and operational with no maintenance, etc.

Speaking of continuity issues that we just have to ignore: Winnie, the little girl whose mother had her arm frozen off.

From E1, we know that Miles was an infant when the train left Chicago. Miles is clearly much older than Winnie. The Tail residents are kept sterilized to control the train population, and in 3rd and 2nd, you have to win the random Baby Lottery in order to be allowed to reproduce, so ... where did Winnie come from? She's clearly no older than five and they have been traveling for seven years.

OK. Last total geek out comment :)

@thebragal got my Snowpiercer/Willie Wonka note in PM. After watching the film and looking at two of the videos, I'm a true believer! Plus, in the Season 2 promo, show runner Graeme Manson, made a definitely inside joke that raised my eyebrows: "It's fun to pull back that curtain, be it Oz or Willy Wonka or whatever kind of psychopath might be behind that door," he told SyFyWire. just saying. :)

Forgot to mention, that Strong Boy coming out of the Drawers speaking Mandarin when he was mute before is a giant clue to something about what Melanie, Jinju and the Doc were up to with the Drawers.

"Snowpiercer" has a lot of secrets to reveal to us!

Maybe the Drawers have a way to "sleep educate" people while they're out? Maybe that's Snowpiercer's way of making sure they'll have all the needed survival skills when they awaken?

Maybe Winnie was demoted from a higher class? Orphaned, perhaps? Or a contraceptive failure. Or a reward for something her Mom did for someone uptrain.

I continue to be horrified by the weaponization of the cold. Death by ice lung? I find the idea terrible, which I suppose is the point. It doesn't look too violent onscreen, just like a frosty CPAP mask.

I have to admit, I wasn't expecting a second train. I thought survivors might be holed up in a bunker somewhere. And aren't the, what, six(?) detached cars blocking whatever tracks they wound up on? Does that mean that route is now closed, or is there a way to move them off the tracks -- presumably on the next revolution, after everyone inside is long dead?

Artistic, your comments about Melanie and Wilford seem spot-on. I find it odd, though, that Hospitality have been trained to welcome visitors -- were they actually expecting any?!?

Does anyone else think Second Train took a big chance sending Alexandra onto Snowpiercer unescorted? Do they have a clue about the (political) revolution? Could they have been eavesdropping (at least on the radio -- I don't think the pneumatic tubes could be intercepted)? Do they even know the Tailies are on board? If not, Wilford will doubtless be expecting his government to be running exactly as he set it up. How far will he go to set things to rights (at least, in his mind)?

Wow, what a cliffhanger! Can't wait 'til next seaon!

One other thing I wanted to mention here is that I haven't seen any notice of TNT releasing Snowpiercer on DVD or Blu-Ray. I e-mailed them yesterday to ask about it. A Web search yields the movie or a Korean release. I hope they'll put it out, with TONS of extras! (On DVD 'cause I don't have a Blu-Ray player).

Great point about there being a welcoming party protocol!! Another of those continuity issues, I suppose.

Death by ice lung is truly inhumane. I thought taking an arm was gruesome. I wonder if those punishments were Wilford's ideas or Melanie's. Those portals to stick arms in and that freeze hose she used on Josie were both built into the train.

Well, the punishments aren't just punishments, they're a way of keeping the populace in line by reminding them JUST how hostile the environment outside is. I still suspect they use demotion for less-serious offenses (stuck downtrain for 30 days or something). And, yes, the ports are original to the train. Makes me wonder just how harsh Wilford is going to be as he struggles to regain order...HIS order. Is he going to be a fascist or a benevolent dictator? He and Layton DEFINITELY aren't going to be on good terms. What does that mean for the train?

I expect little Winnie was a contraceptive mistake. Nothing is 100%! I also wondered what the heck they expect to do when the next revolution comes around with extra cars on the tracks! Ice lung is truly horrific but it’s better than dying in massive pain and fever after losing an arm and not getting any treatment. It least ice lung is quick! I blame Melanie for lots of bad stuff but not for lying about Mr W. being on board. With people being W zealots, what else could she do?. I’m still shocked that she allowed the girl (is it MJ?) to be released. I thought at least she’d be confined to her car. I’m so happy that first class is now over run with Tail and 3rd class. They never should have been allowed such luxury in the first place. This is a survival situation after all. They should be glad to be alive, not flaunting their wealth!! No other true survival situation works that way, money loses its value. Maybe some slightly nicer accommodations but fresh sushi? Really? I expected that there might be other survivors out there, of course there are other smart people who could engineer a way to stay warm under ground with geothermal energy. That has to still be there or else the world would stop spinning (I saw something about the movement of the liquid stuff in the earths core affects the rotation of the planet on Discovery). But I’m amazed that there is a second train! And her daughter is on it? Clearly there was still the ability to plan and get to safety after the train left. But why is Melanie so surprised there is another train if it’s a supply train? Maybe it was planned but she thought it didn’t work out? And why haven’t they met before?

I just went looking for the Season 1 finale analysis videos. Here's one from SuperHero Nexus on the 5 questions that need to be answered in Season 2. Be sure to check out the comments -- where theories are made by viewers.

I'm headed to see if Heavy Spoilers did one as well.

@thebragal -- they haven't met before because of Snowpiercer's speed. It's been slowing down with every revolution. Ben the engineer has said things to that effect all season, and the scene where Melanie was teaching Miles she confirmed his question about them losing speed.

Actress Mickey Sumner aka Bess Till on the finale and what it means for her character.

Thank you for a great season of discussion. See you next go round of "Snowpiercer."

Thank you for hosting, Artistic! Looking forward to the next revolution! :)